wireless nt. and plugging stuff into holes dat fit.

[biggles]

ok my freind is getting 'connected' his parents wont let him have games on their internet pc *EEK*
so.
i was wondering what the components for wireless nt are, i see cards and stuff but basically it confuses the hell out of me.

they want to run a setup with a hub downstairs, in the study with their pc, and their laptop, and the cable modem plugged into the hub. with mym8es pc upstairs throught wireless nt.

just wondering what the components are, and how it works, do you have the wireless card upstairs, then a little wireless hub thingy that is plugged into the main hub? how do you plug a basic cable modem into a hub?

i am not going to help him (im mean i know) i dont wanna screw it up for him, he can do that himself, i was just wondering what is involved out of interest.

[Sparks]

i was wondering what the components for wireless nt are, i see cards and stuff but basically it confuses the hell out of me.

Firstly - What exactly IS a wireless "nt" ? What on earth do you mean?

But instead of being completely unhelpful, let's try something novel in a forum!

Think of it like this....
A network card (often abbreviated to NIC - Network Interface Card) is usually thought of as some sort of cabled / wired device to permit various computer bits to intercommunicate.

All a wireless card does is replace the NIC and cabling with radio waves. If you have a laptop, it is sensible to use a PCMCIA or PC Card wireless card, or if it is a desktop PC, an internal PCI bus type wireless card. You can also get PCI bus to PCMCIA adapters, therefore one could also plug in the adapter to your desktop PC, and plug in your PCMCIA wireless lan card in the slot of the adapter card.

Or... you can get external boxes like modems and routers which have the wireless bit built in. The way the modem/router connects to the PC is via wireless and to the internet via whatever type of modem is appropriate, i.e. 56k modem, ISDN or ADSL.

The PCMCIA cards have transmitter powers that will easily allow it to work in the house just fine. Unless of course you're warming up something in the microwave, then in which case expect the whole network speed to suddenly grind to a halt. Microwave ovens use the same band as the cheaper Wireless LANs. (2.4GHz)

The internal PCI ones usually come with an aerial connector on the back allowing you to connect up to an external aerial on your roof so that everyone in your local area for about a mile can hack your network and steal your bandwidth.

Therefore I suggest you read up on wireless lan security too! Also try searching for "WiFi" in google.

Hope that helps for now?

[PeteTheHair]

The PCMCIA cards have transmitter powers that will easily allow it to work in the house just fine. Unless of course you're warming up something in the microwave, then in which case expect the whole network speed to suddenly grind to a halt. Microwave ovens use the same band as the cheaper Wireless LANs. (2.4GHz)

FYI, cordless phones are also a no-no. I think you'd also be suprised at how poor some of the range is as well... 2.4GHz, being a relatively high frequency, hates passing through pretty much anything and in a home environment this can be a serious issue (some more than others depending on how your house is put together). For instance, my wireless setup at the mo has serious issues getting from one end of the flat to the other. Our (soon to be relocated) wireless point is at one end of the flat, and a laptop on the sofa at the other end (about 20 metres tops, through 2 walls) doesn't always manage a reliable connection.

Therefore I suggest you read up on wireless lan security too! Also try searching for "WiFi" in google.

Without going in to too many details, wireless LAN security (at least the kind a home user will use) is a joke. Of epic proportions. The details get a bit hairy in places, but it's to do with the cipher scheme used, and the key management in the clients (i.e. There isn't any). How anyone ever believed it would work is beyond me. Currently, the only serious way to create a secure wireless LAN is to run a VPN over the network, and treat the wireless segment as an insecure zone. Waste of resources and time for secure network? I'll take me chances with WEP for the mo.


However. my real point in this is that a wireless setup is far more hassle, and a lot more expensive than a wired one. A wireless version will cost you at least £100, prolly closer to £150, while a wired version will set you back a max of about £30. It's more secure, faster, and non-dependant on the microwave, the construction of your house, which way the wind's blowing and migrating geese.



As for the cable-modem question, it depends on the package and provider, as far as I know. I know some of them will come in on ethernet, but only talk to 1 PC (MAC address locked), some will have no problem just being shared, and some even may be USB (not sure about this, though I know ADSL can be). If it will only talk to one PC, getting it shared is trivial provided you have a working network, so there's not too much to worry about.

[biggles]

thanks, nt stands for network:P

what you said about your flat is good, and all of their phones are cordless, plus they use mobiles loads so i will have to poke him, cables are better anyway.

hmm, assuming that both of their pc's have no ethernet cards, and the cable modem can be shared on a server (mine works) what equipment is needed keeping it as cheap as possible? with a hub of course for the third pc/laptop.

i have no idea but i was thinking.

hub,
2wireless lan cards..

but then you need a receiver to plug the pc's into the hub?????


*gets a headache*

back to my it class, we are learning about how video shops use microsoft excel to record video loans, lol.

[Spey]

99% of most people will see "NT" and read windows NT network is usually called network

also dont confuse that with "the Net" or .NET

and err..basically yeah wireless networks = hassle

just buy a box of the good old RJ and put a few runs here and there.

If you wanted to go the whole hog you could buy some cable trunking and network point boxes and wire the thing up proper style

and if they have an "internet" pc you might as well leave that setup the way it is (im assuming the cable modem is going into the back of that machine) and just run ICS or some such similar service to share the connection to the other pc(s)


in short...blue peter style...You will need :

hub/switch (hubs will be cheaper)
Network cable (enough to stretch to each machine from the hub/switch)
NIC (one in each machine to connect the machine to the network)
then a bit of fiddley with settings (ip's gateways and the like)

get the hardware right then the fiddly part is setting up the network protocals but im sure someone can help you out if you ask them

[biggles]

THATS the problem, they are one of these, we know nothing, but what is best, and since we are in charge theres nothing you can do!

my pet hate is people that think they are going to get 'hacked' the main way that pc's are damaged by the internet is receiving dodgy mail, or pissing someone off.

i do not beleive that any pc with a well set up firewall is at any risk, unless you seriously piss people off online *hides in the corner* but since it is their pc that is near the internet point, they dont want to have it on whenever adam needs the internet so he doesnt have a choice, and i know enough about cable networking to do it that way, although i dont know how to fit wall boxes, is it really necessery????? well for them, yes, because it looks like that will be their only option unless they intend on spending fecking hundreds.

[Sparks]

PeteTheHair: FYI, cordless phones are also a no-no. I

But only if they are the 2.4GHz ones. Most (legal) cordless phones are either 1.6MHz/49Mhz or 31/46MHz or Dect (1.8GHz). The 2.4GHz are just coming in now and proving quite popular due to their price. Until someone cooks their pizza whilst talking on one, then they can't figure out why the phone call just disconnected!

Mobile phones should not affect a Wireless Lan. Unless you put the phone close to the IT kit itself, in which case it screws up the logic chips (not permanently, just while the RF from the phone is getting into the kit)

Pete,
Are your cards in frequency hopping or single channel spread spectrum mode? I guess the latter. In which case if you find the Wireless LAN range is crap, have you tried using a different channel?

There may also be other users of the 2.4GHz spectrum nearby, such as videosenders or wireless CCTV which will raise the RF noise floor considerably and create the effect of poor range or slow speed.

With Wireless LAN kit, the professional solution is to perform a site survey and measure the noise floor. I do have the measuring kit for this task, as this is part of my day job remit, but it is a bit overkill for domestic installs. I use it just for commercial applications.

Biggles
For your friend's application, just stick with good old CAT5 cable and some cheap Network cards and a hub as suggested in other posts. Why make life complicated? KISS principle always works best! Especially when you nor your friend really know what you're doing!

[LazyManc]

Is it just me or is Sparks sounding more and more like James Bond with every post?

[ZiK]

you mean he isnt James Bond?

[uatec]

... I dont get it.

[biggles]

i wish we could use cat5, but since they are loaded, and dont want to see cables anywhere, wireless is the only way! either that or they get wall points, which is unlikely as they just got redecorated:<

[Spey]

when skill level it takes to set up wireless lans properly > current skill level

then use simple methods...cat5 works

wireless lans are for those who want to be a bit flashy

my advice...get something that works before you go for the flashy stuff


and its easy enough to run a cable along the skirting board and around doorframes with a few P clips (or whatever there called) then paint the cable to match..and a wall point is only as ugly as a normal power point...infact in most cases ill usually fix a point next to a power point anyway to save on uglyness


only downside to the points method is that you need a crimper and the knowhow of how to wire a points box up...other than that patch cable is good

but honestly if you need to go onto forums to find out how to set up wireless then i wouldnt bother with it...its only going to be hassle

[biggles]

nod, thanks spey. there is no way that there will be any cable running in that house, its far to 'common' or however it is that they put it.
we just go under the floor, up into the wall mounted cupboard, get a great big drill, drill straight up throught the ceiling push the wire up, grab it upstairs, under some more carpet, bish bash bosh done. no mess.

[Spey]

rah

at the company i work for "bosh" is like the buzz word that everyone uses for "i have just submitted a solution" such as...stick that cable in there...BOSH...its also funny if we have the bosch drill to hand

anyway enough of my cowboy builder style networking

*recalls the time he was up a 15 foot ladder standing on a desk with the ladder holder sitting on a wheelychair, whilst trying to drill a hole through steel with a hammer drill*


happy memories

[Sparks]

Is it just me or is Sparks sounding more and more like James Bond with every post?

Damn. You've obviously seen the kit installed in my motor!

Too late to get the number plates changed or a respray. Have to get another one. What a shame.