C&C:Generals - A step too far?

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C&C:Generals - A step too far?

Post by Ze_Baron »

Watch out Uatec and Biggles, intelligent debate coming up, please dont talk crap.

Guys,

I bought C&C:Generals on friday and a bloody good game it is too. Very pretty and a damn good RTS to boot.

BUT it is distastful. The yanks are all clean and heroic and go around saying things like "Destroy anything not Amercian" in their usual "Ignorant and intolerant of anything outside Wyoming" kind a way, the Chinese are reformed good old chaps but still Communists and the GLA are just Al-Queda. The references to terrorists, anthrax, chemical and biological warfare and linked very strongly to Bagdad is disgusting.

When you play as the GLA, one of the mission goals is to kill civilians by spraying them with a Toxin Tractor - while this is inevitably highly amusing it is also quite base. The GLA have a very shady and undefined political agenda, which echoes the US's view of terrorists (they hate us because we are good a yank once told me) and nearly every unit in the GLA's arsenal from Scuds to suicide bombers to chemical and anthrax bombs seems to try and tie Bagdad to Bin-Laden...

Discuss: Should a computer game be used as a tool to exert political influence?
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Post by PeteTheHair »

A variation on this question could well have been asked when the Americas Army recruitment thing came out (if it wasn't crap)...

IMO, it's another step that gaming takes into the mass media. Every other form of entertainment has been twisted and used to the advantage of anyone powerful enough to control it. 9/11 happens, and Bush pushes government money at film studios producing "God Bless America" films to get them out ASAP... Why stop at films? Music's been doing it for years.

Gaming is growing large enough and ugly enough to start cashing in and having more of an effect. I remember reading a Tom Clancy book (I forget which, probably in the PowerPlays series?) about someone releasing various chunks of sick software across the net and inciting riots, etc with it. It was rather predictably set x years in the future, but maybe we're coming to that now. This is the other side of it... the "freedom" of the net means anyone can now get software out without a publisher. Fuck knows it'd cause enough publicity.

Q: Should a computer game be used as a tool to exert political influence?
A: Probably not, but then should film/TV/music, etc?

Without derailing the topic - C&C generals : Decent enough game, varied and fun missions, but where'd the storyline go??? Where's the trademark C&C FMV sequences? "I'm Seth. Just Seth. From God, to Kane, to Seth". They sooo nearly got it right, damnit!
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Post by Ze_Baron »

Too true, the scary guy with the van Dyke beard was great!

Generals is rumoured to have cost $14 million to produce and it has lost some of that Westwood magic. instead we have this pathetically blatant attempt to link Iraq with Al-Queda and furthermore, the insistence that the world is split equally between teh "good" and the "bad". Such a simplistic and black and white view of the world is pig ignorant and to be expected in US movies and music. However even the movies don't do it as blantantly as Generals.

It is patronising. The Chinese are viewd as a regime that is trying to better itself by modelling itself on the west (read USA). It is still communists, but it sides with the US but sometimes has "rogue elements" that think for themelves and side with the GLA. It is up to the US to teach China how to behave.

If you are going to turn a game into a political dbate at least do it fully!

The GLA on the other hand are portrayed as pure evil. Their agenda is never discussed and neither are the reasons that would turn humans beings into running suicide bombs. Surely the fact that the USA's presence causes such a reaction of desperation in a people should be covered? Perhaps in the narrative.

If you are going to plunge the world of C&C into the real word, you could have made a very interesting and educated point about the Middle East, the USA's and Isreal's treatment of it and the causes of terrorism.

Instead we have a disgusting propaganda coup that has made me think very seriously about buying another game in the C&C series. It is sad that the context of a game, a bloody computer game has to have such an effect.

I HATE to think what kind of effect it will have on the less enlightened hordes of the USA, Isreal, UK and some elements in other western countries.

And the arab world will be deeply offended, it wont do much for relations. and the Chinese will have reason to feel patronised.

It is all too close to reality and yet to simplistic for entertainment. It is propaganda. Goebells would have been proud.
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Post by mid_gen »

I tend to agree. While it's certainly a very good game, it's stepped *way* over the mark.

A few satirical jabs in a game is all well and good, but the whole thing revolves around the US war on terrorism, and in the current political climate, it's not very clever. Tbh I'm shocked that EA of all people would be pushing this out the door.
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Post by rib? »

just read the review in pcgamer march 2003. good game appauling morals. lets see how long it is till someone puts out a mod for it will we :) and why arnt their boats :(
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Post by Ironballs »

Yes this does seem to be a step too far but you have to wonder is it done on purpose or a symptom of bad plot writting for games which has plauged the industry since pong ? (nice game but don't the paddles even have names ?)

You can probably count the number of games which you would actually consider that had story lines that a decent book/film could be made from but the number of a appaling written story lines envolves atleast 5 games a month. I suspect westwood were trying to go for a game which reflects the current world situation but employeed a moron writer(s) as many others in the industry seem to.
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Post by Kulgan »

While I agree with a number of points, I'd like to point out a number of things either. Pete's comments about the lack of FMV sequences seem particularly telling.

For example, in one of the USA missions a bloke called "Colonel Burton" turns up at the beginning (and promptly gets killed 'cos I'm crap, but hey). Who the fuck is Colonel Burton? It smacks of a Tanya-esque character in the old Westwood style, but where's the introduction? Where's the FMV with incredible amounts of cleavage? Obviously not in Colonel Burton's case, but "Black Lotus" would...

I'm sorry, but what it looks like is this:
1) EA buys Westwood, Generals 2/3 complete, no FMV yet 'cos the plot hasn't been decided.
2) EA finishes the game logic, says "Ah, I can't be fucked to spend another $Xk on making the game perfect, we'll just throw it out. Oh, and those connectivity issues? They don't matter - people can open 5 ports on their firewall/NAT can't they?"
My ass.

Nice idea, shame about the rampant profiteering. EA - 2/10 for effort. Westwood - shame you got bought.

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Post by Ze_Baron »

Yes, the Westwood magic had evaporated. :(

Instead we have a ridiculous political statement. And teh music is crap too...

Dune and C&C had GREAT music! Oh well, all good things must come to an end...
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Post by rib? »

gawd bless electronic arts profit margins.... /me goes and buys some stocks
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Post by Chief »

generals rocks
the maps need to be bigger.
i dont give 2 shits about the political aspects..

The GLA remind me of the Greater London Authority - poisoning & killing civilians etc.. Tanks need to be much cheaper & infantry needs to be harder to kill by anti-personel stuff, so they can hijack stuff easier.
But the mob w/ ak47's = sweetest weapon :)

China: heavy tanks + Gattling guns/Medical towery things = great in groups. Self sufficient unit.

Amercia: WTF? UN supply drops? ill have 20 of them please :)
Choppers & Humvee/Rocket Troops/Snipers = SVEET :)


other than the cool units, the graphics are intense (even on my now relativlyt slow Athlon1600+). Probably my Geforce4 Ti 4400 proping it up... A must for a lan in the future. Online play is tolerabe too, aslong as we are all VPN'd. (it dosnt like NAT games for some reason??)

Bring on the custom huge maps :)
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Post by Ze_Baron »

Maps need to be 4 times bigger thank you. I hope this is possible witht he current engine.

Those suicide bombers are already very powerful, making them harder to kill would be a bitch.

A tip when playing as China: Always place your hackers in small groups dotted around the periphery of your base, the AI will always Scud Storm them first! Hopefully the damage will be minimal.

Personally I think superweapons are BORING!
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Post by Chief »

yeah, its just down to your pc being able to handle it.

regular maps in the map editor are 100x100. i started to work on a 500x500 map so should be cool
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Post by GlimmerMan »

Super weapons should be limited to 1 of each type, i.e. you can build your 5000 dolllar super weapon only once and if u steal an enemy's builder you can only build one of theirs.
I had a 3v3 game 2 nights ago when one enemy USA player had 1 particle cannon and *5* nukes. The game lasted 3 hours, we eventually won since I was GLA and GLA holes save your ass so much against nukes. :) GLA's base structure gives them great stamina for long games.
The game was fun but it was stupid as well it was just a super weapon fight for 90% of the game!

I have a better tip for China's hackers, send them to the bottom of the map, away from your base, then rotate your view by 180 degrees and send them as far to the top of the screen as you can, then set your view back to normal and you cannot see them as they are off the bottom of the viewable map, they don't even appear on radar, the only way your enemy will find them is if they rotate their map around to check, and so far I've found nobody that does that. Hack away! (Naturally the computer AI has to 'cheat' or it'd be way too easy, so this strategy won't work for them since the AI sees and knows all.)
It is also an idea to sit a couple of tanks a few squares north of the hackers when vs USA. This will mask the hackers when USA uses their detention camp spy function, they'll just see the tanks and won;t think any more about it, if the tanks weren't there they'd see the fog of war peeled back and no units so they'd prolly go investigate and find your hackers.
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Post by Ze_Baron »

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Post by rib? »

well they did ask for it, can china sue?
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Post by Chief »

EA will probably sue china for allowing such blatent copyright infringement... and "how did you get a copy of our game.. its not available in china.. we are gonna sue u!"
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Post by Spey »

Chief wrote:EA will probably sue china for allowing such blatent copyright infringement... and "how did you get a copy of our game.. its not available in china.. we are gonna sue u!"

once chinese hackers get to 3rd rank they can download warez from newsgroups :D
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